What's the Point?

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Welcome to What's the Point?

What’s the Point? is the podcast for founders, marketers, and talent leaders who want straight-talking advice that drives business growth.

Hosted by three seasoned marketing leaders with deep roots in recruitment, tech, and scaling businesses, we cut through the noise to ask the tough questions, and share what actually works.

From marketing myths and AI hype to talent strategy and commercial realities, we bring honest conversation, practical playbooks, and the occasional rant - all to help you lead smarter and grow faster.

For people who care about impact, not just influence.

About the Hosts

Clair Bush

Clair helps recruitment and HR tech businesses cut through the noise and make marketing deliver real business results. As a Fractional CMO, consultant and advisor, she partners with founders, boards, and in-house teams to bring clarity to chaos, turn strategy into action, and drive commercial impact. With 20+ years across agency, in-house, and tech, Clair has sat at every table – from exec boards to investor updates – and knows how to make marketing count where it matters most.

Janine Owen

With over 25 years in marketing leadership across agency and in-house roles, Janine knows what happens when marketing is truly valued – and what happens when it’s not. As founder of JO&Co, she helps businesses grow through sharp strategy, creative thinking, and commercial focus. A mentor to marketers and advisor to leadership teams, Janine aligns brand, sales, and strategy to make marketing deliver with impact and integrity.

Kristie Perrotte

Kristie has spent over 20 years challenging what recruitment marketing can – and should – do. From leading global strategy at Robert Half to founding Thrive, she’s helped ambitious agencies prove that marketing isn’t fluff; it’s fuel for growth. Kristie works with recruitment businesses and employers to build standout brands, align marketing with commercial strategy, and earn marketing a permanent seat at the decision-making table.

Latest Episode...

Here's a taste of What's the Point? the podcast for people who care about impact, not just influence.

Dec. 4, 2025

#13 - Season 1 - What's The Point?

Season one has been a conversation about clarity, confidence and the real role of marketing inside a recruitment business. In this wrap up, the team look back at the themes that shaped the series. The rise of commercial thinking. The growing importance of brand. And the need for alignment between sales, marketing and leadership. They reflect on the moments that stood out. The guests who challenged the way teams work. The stories that showed the value of focus. And the lessons that help marketer

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Nov. 27, 2025

#12 - Pricing Power: How to Set, Defend and Improve Your Pricing Strategy - Jon Brooks

Most recruitment leaders know their service is worth more than their fees, yet so many still reach for discounting at the first sign of resistance. In this episode, we sit down with Jon Brooks, one of the industry’s leading pricing strategists, to explore why recruitment businesses undervalue themselves and how to fix it for good. Jon shares the real moments that shaped his approach. Watching teams work hard to build a strong brand, then crumble in a pricing conversation. Seeing profit evaporat

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Nov. 20, 2025

#11 Why FOMO in Marketing Can Be Dangerous

Every marketer has felt it. Someone launches a podcast. Someone shouts about a new AI tool. Someone gets ten thousand likes on LinkedIn. Suddenly you are questioning everything. In this episode, the girls explore the impact of FOMO in marketing. They look at why distraction kills strategy, how shiny objects derail good plans, and how to stay commercially focused when everyone is chasing the next trend. They share stories from the front line. Client pressure. Leadership panic. The pull of new tec

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Nov. 13, 2025

#10 How to Build a Business Case for Marketing Spend

Q4. Planning season. The spreadsheets are out, finance is calling, and marketers everywhere are bracing for the same question: “So… what’s your budget for next year?” In this episode, the team breaks down how to turn marketing from a cost centre into a commercial growth driver by building a rock-solid business case for spend. They explore how marketers can link creativity to commercial reasoning, how to structure a marketing budget that earns trust, and how to have smarter conversations with l

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Nov. 6, 2025

#9 Resilience, Bounce-back & Community Growth - James Mayes, Co-Founder of Rodeo

In this episode, the team sits down with James Mayes, Co-Founder of Rodeo and former CEO of Mind the Product, to explore how genuine human connection still sits at the heart of business growth, even in an AI-driven world. James shares his extraordinary journey from recruitment to founding and exiting one of the world’s most respected product communities, and now building Rodeo, a platform reimagining how event and media businesses connect people, data, and purpose. Together, we unpack: * The fi

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Oct. 30, 2025

#8 Brand Isn’t a Logo – Building Trust That Wins Clients and Candidates

Most recruitment businesses underinvest in brand - they focus on job boards, LinkedIn licenses, or shiny websites, but forget what truly drives value: a brand that builds trust, loyalty, and long-term growth. In this episode, the team unpack what brand really means beyond a logo - and how it shapes everything from your sales process to your candidate experience. They discuss why a rebrand isn’t just about colour palettes or new websites, but about defining your value proposition, understanding

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Oct. 23, 2025

#7 Marketing & Sales Alignment: Still More Talk Than Action? w/ Paul Sharpe

Sales and marketing - the age-old tension that every recruitment business talks about fixing, but few ever do. In this episode, we’re joined by Paul Sharpe, Co-founder of North Star People, to unpack why marketing and sales alignment in recruitment is still more talk than action — and what the best agencies are actually doing to change that. We get honest about the structural, cultural, and commercial issues holding agencies back - and share practical ideas for building genuine alignment betwe

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Oct. 16, 2025

#6 - Hiring Marketers - What Founders Get Wrong

Hiring your first marketer - or your next one - can make or break your agency’s growth plans. In this episode, we break down how to plan, structure, and execute your marketing hire so it delivers real commercial impact. We chat about: - When it’s the right time to hire marketing - How to choose between junior, senior, or fractional marketers - The essential commercial questions every founder should ask - Why alignment and clarity matter more than job titles - How to set your marketing hire

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Oct. 9, 2025

#5 - Live from NEC Birmingham - Recruitment Agency Expo 2025

Recorded LIVE at the Recruitment Marketing Expo 2025, this special episode unpacks how marketing can transform not just brand perception-but the actual commercial value of a recruitment business in front of a live audience. We explore how marketing is shifting from “support function” to “strategic asset,” and how the smartest agencies are using employer branding, automation, and storytelling to drive long-term growth and boost their exit value. In this live panel discussion, we cover: - Why g

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Oct. 2, 2025

#4 The Link Between Revenue & Marketing: Let’s Talk Money w/Matt Gallivan, Sales Director @ JobAdder

Marketing is more than making things “look pretty.” At its best, it’s a driver of revenue, strategy, and long-term growth. So why do so many CEOs still miss the point? In this episode, we’re joined by Matt Gallivan, Sales Director at JobAdder for North America, to explore how sales and marketing can work together as true revenue partners—and why ego, silos, and old ways of thinking are holding too many businesses back. We dive into: - Why many CEOs undervalue marketing (and how to change that)

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Sept. 25, 2025

#3 - Debunking AI marketing hype with Matt Comber - CEO of SourceFlow

AI is everywhere in recruitment conversations right now - but how much of it is hype, and what’s actually useful? In this episode, we’re joined by Matt Cumber, CEO of SourceFlow, to cut through the noise and talk about the reality of AI in recruitment. In thus, special guest, episode we explore: - The difference between AI hype and AI reality - Where AI is genuinely improving productivity today - The risks of buying into promises without proof - How recruitment leaders should approach AI ad

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Sept. 18, 2025

#2 - Your CEO Thinks They Know Marketing, What Now?

Recruitment marketing is changing-fast. In this episode, we explore what that means for marketers and recruitment leaders alike. From shifting expectations to the rise of data-driven strategies, here’s what you need to know to stay ahead. In this episode, we cover: The evolution of recruitment marketing Why being “strategic” matters more than ever Proving marketing’s impact to leadership Building resilience and adaptability

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Sept. 11, 2025

# 1 – What We Wish We’d Known Earlier in Our Career

Starting out in recruitment marketing is rarely straightforward. Between being asked to wear every hat in the business, proving your worth to leadership, and trying to balance tactics with strategy-it’s easy to lose sight of where marketing truly adds value. In this first episode, we reflect on the lessons we wish we’d known earlier in our careers: Why saying “yes” too often can hold you back from being seen as a strategic partner How to navigate misconceptions about marketing’s role i

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